Friday, February 3, 2012

When reloading shotgun shells, can I use just any hull?

I have been saving my hulls from field loads, with the intention of reloading them this winter. Never done it before, and I'm wondering if it matters which brand of hull I am using when reloading them?

When reloading shotgun shells, can I use just any hull?
You need to use a certain hull to a certain reloading recipie.



Hulls vary, give different pressures, and use different wads...the interior is either tapered or straight.



You need to have a particular recipie for the hull, primer, powder, wad, and shot-charge weight you are using. The manufacturer of your powder will have these.



Addendum:



Lets prove why it matters what hull you use. Data compiled from Hodgdon, as an example. Lets take two similar 12gauge hulls...both tapered inside, but slightly different...and both 100% plastic. Exact same components in both.



First, 1 1/8 load of lead shot, STS/Nitro/Gun Club Remington hull, Win 209 primer and WAA12 wad:



1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 15.4 8,700PSI 1090FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 16.7 10,000PSI 1145FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 17.9 11,400PSI 1200FPS



Next, the Winchester AA hull, same wad, primer and powder.



1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 15.2 9,500PSI 1090FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 16.5 10,400PSI 1145FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12 17.8 11,100PSI 1200FPS





As you can see 15.4 grains of Hodgdon's TITEWAD powder develops only 8700psi in a Remington Hull, while .2 grains less (15.2) of the same, in a AA hull generates 800psi more, for 9500psi.



This is simply because of differences in the interior shell dimensions. Both are tapered, but not exactly the same way.



Anyone who said hull type doesn't matter should reconsider their "expert" status and disdain with which they use the term "expert" to describe others. I'm not an "expert"...I just know how to read.



http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.a...



^ Look it up for yourself. WAA12 Wad, Titewad powder, W209 primer, 1 1/8 (1.125) oz shot, and the AA and STS hulls.



What matters when it comes to hulls is whether its straight wall or tapered wall...and the manufacturer of it because they each have their own dimensions.. If you stick a straight wad in a taper hull, you're obviously going to get a higher pressure. Stick a tapered wad in a straight hull, and you'll get less. That is why knowing a manual and following the recipies are important.



Lets just throw this into the mix:



Federal straight-wall hull, Win 209 primer, Titewad Powder, but lookie here a WAA12SL (1oz, "Pink) wad for 1 1/8...



1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12SL 16.5 7,900PSI 1090FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12SL 17.5 9,100PSI 1145FPS

1 1/8 oz. Titewad Win. 209 WAA12SL 18.2 9,800PSI 1200FPS



So here they have you cramming 1 1/8 in a "1oz" Pink tapered wad...but in straight Federal hull (which has a paper basewad, by the way)... but if you'll notice...at the first load, 1.3 grain more of the same powder generates 1600 LESS psi, than basically the same in a AA hull. That of course, cause of the hull.



I suggest you pick your powder, and read up either Hodgdon's or Alliant's manual (depending on who makes the powder you choose).
Reply:Prefer the Double AA's.*
Reply:I wonder..................
Reply:No, as long as they are all the same size and gauge hulls.
Reply:At the risk of pissing off Ace again, no, brands of hulls make no difference. Pretty much all the modern "experts" will sell you the line about recipes for different hulls, but it's not important. The ONLY thing, hull-wise, that matters is the type of basewad the hull has. Paper basewad hulls will require a tad more powder to get the same velocity as plastic wad or no wad hulls will.



Recipes are as much for ease of loading, as in filling the hull with enough plastic etc so it'll crimp right as they are about velocites. There simply aren't that many standard loads. Old timers like myself will often have one or two favorite loads (powder/shot) and use those same loads in whatever hulls we happen to be working on at that moment. That's why suppliers make and sell diff thicknesses of felt/cork/plastic wadding to adjust the load to fill the particular type of hull. Make a log and write down the load you use each time so you can repeat it if it works for you.



The only reason folks prefer certain brands of hulls over others is they last longer or they reload/crimp easier.



The only caveat to that is that one brand of hulls, Fiocchi, can sometimes have overly large primer pockets and they won't hold onto American primers. If you get a batch of those, you can prime the hull and then shake it and the primer will often fall out. I've heard they fixed that....but I've also heard they haven't.



If you want to get into reloading shotgun shells easily and cheaply, go to Midway on the web and pick yourself up a Lee Load-All 2 in your gauge. The entire "reloading manual" is written on ONE single 8 1/2x11" sheet of paper. You'll be loading tonight and shooting your own "looks and performs like new" shells tomorrow.



http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.ex...



Here's the Lee "reloading manual" http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/ins...



Addendum: Let's address the pertinent details raised by Ace....



"Pressure...." all the rest was useless spewage.



One can copy and paste all they want and without actually "learning" the topic, they'll never understand it. That's the problem with so many of the current "experts". They're quick on the copy and paste but they don't quote grasp the info they're trying to argue.



In all that info that Ace presented, the ONLY pertinent detail was pressure.



The type of hulls he cited makes no difference, why? Simple. Because they *don't* make an unsafe-pressure load.



It makes no difference if you substitute and reload a Remington black (my fav reload hull) via those recipes he cited or a Federal or a Winchester yadda yadda yadda because they *don't* make an unsafe-pressure load.



Does it matter to your shotgun if one load is 8,700psi compared to one that's 9,000? Noooooo. Because they, once again, *don't* make an unsafe-pressure load.



They'll most certainly pattern differently....just like any two brands of store-bought shells will. That's why you don't mix and match if you worry about patterning. But just like all store-bought shells, they're all safe to shoot in modern shotguns.



You can take those recipes cited by Ace and reload *ANY* modern 12ga hull exactly as stated and *ALL* of them will be perfectly safe to shoot because they *don't* make an unsafe-pressure load.



Btw, for those that are wondering, SAAMI average chamber pressure for commercial 12ga is 11,500psi....some commercial ammo can range as high as 14,000psi and they're all perfecltly safe. As long as your loads are under those numbers, which *ALL* reloading powder companies make sure they are, you're perfectly safe to shoot those loads in all modern shotguns.



There is no *safe load* recipe presented on *ANY* reloading powder site nor reloading manual that becomes unsafe simply by the substitution of a different hull.
Reply:For consistance in the performance of your shells, they should be the same. However, I have not been abe to tell that much difference. I must add the caveat that I am not a shotgunner. I use mine almost exclusively for hunting squirrels. Loading a variety of different shells has not been a problem for me but if you are shooting clay targets in competition, I'd stick to one brand and be sure that it is a good brand.
Reply:After a lot of trial and error, I found that the winchester AA hulls really work the best for reloading. I always pick up any I find. I load them only now.
Reply:Use a specific hull for whatever you're loading for consistent loads. For my 12 and 20 ga. loaders I only use Winchester AA hulls.

If there are any local gun shows you can check there too. I recently picked up 200 once fired 12 ga. hulls for $12.00.
Reply:If you want them to all fire the same you need to make sure all the hulls are the same. Also you know how some hulls are "high brass" and generally made for high velocity or magnum loads only use these hulls for making heavy game loads. Obviously by the same token don't exceed pressures for which these field load hulls were intended either. If you are not sure ask someone who knows. Since you've been saving them you know which are which so bundle them up in 25's (this is probably how you bought them) and load them 25 at a time it's easier to keep track of them that way.



Edit: Doesn't common sense, not reloading experience, tell us that if you change a component of an equation the outcome will change? Hull, primer, wad, powder, shot, and shot size are all components, change any one of these and the end result will be different. Is that so hard for some of you to get your head around? Argue all you want, I'm no reloading guru but aren't we talking about basic mathematical principal here I mean really. I think some of you just like pissing off certain people, stop acting like children.
Reply:not to much on subject but they have to b the ones crimpt on the end2 reload know that 4 sure try 2 get a book on reloading not many suggestions


No comments:

Post a Comment